[讨论]求告知benq的xl2430t和lg的24gm77该如何抉择？
[s:ac:愁][s:ac:愁][img]./mon_/crQ2f-4bw3Z2cT3cSyi-1pc.jpg[/img][img]./mon_/crQ2f-kzhoXbZ37T3cSyi-1pc.jpg[/img]
有钱都买哇 哈哈哈
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]呆萌的纸杰丶[/uid] ( 00:57)[/b]有钱就不来问啦
我完全可以选择2430 据说是2430T的升级版
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=2343451]雷帅帅[/uid] ( 01:02)[/b]只想在这两个之间选一个啊 2430没货
求助......
有什么好抉择的，无脑买lg，明基色彩就是屎，这么多职业选手用完全就是赞助得多，lg这个在tn屏算色彩很不错的了。
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]啊SOWHAT[/uid] ( 01:32)[/b]好吧 哪lg稍微贵一点的显示器还有推荐吗
你错过了mg248q
买笨鸡的2430t不如买2411z 一毛一样的 便宜很多。。。只是30t多了点花哨的控制功能。。。色彩嘛。。用惯了也就没感觉了。
我想推荐HKC X3会被打死嘛
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]花村游戏厅老板·[/uid] ( 02:13)[/b]贵了啊兄弟...
[s:ac:嘲笑1]
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]刷怪数[/uid] ( 01:05)[/b]那这两个都不是好选择 2430T色彩过于感人
24GM虽然色彩在TN屏中很优秀 但是响应时间是硬伤
那我干嘛不去买IPS屏...同档次价位推荐VG248或者优派的那个2401
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=2343451]雷帅帅[/uid] ( 04:09)[/b]mg248q如何呢？
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]刷怪数[/uid] ( 04:14)[/b]还可以 前面降价的时候肯定买MG 但是现在你肯定抢不到了 所以不如买VG 其实我也不知道VG比MG好多少 但是职业玩家多数选择了VG
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=2343451]雷帅帅[/uid] ( 04:22)[/b]不过话说回来，响应速度1不是只是个噱头吗-.-
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]刷怪数[/uid] ( 04:42)[/b]谁告诉你是噱头的...TN屏和IPS屏同样144刷新率
IPS是有肉眼可见的延迟的...因为1MS和4MS只是灰阶响应，实际经过多重处理后人感受到的总延迟是在十几MS开外的
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=2343451]雷帅帅[/uid] ( 04:45)[/b]这个2600人民币价位不是只能买的到tn吗-.-
[b]Reply to [pid=73785,1]Reply[/pid] Post by [uid=]刷怪数[/uid] ( 04:51)[/b]是的是的...所以还是买VG吧 响应，色彩都没硬伤，牌子还是信仰& 产品参数对比
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If you want to focus on strobing backlight/blur reduction capability from 60hz to 144hz (1 hz increments when using the "Single Strobe" service menu option or using a Vertical Total value tweak (VT ), then XL2430T.
if you want to focus on more limited blur reduction (no strobe phase or strobe width adjustments, 120 and 144hz only) but want a nicer overall picture when NOT using blur reduction, then the LG will be quite nice, if you can actually find one in stock.
The LG has a nicer 2D image quality and more overdrive settings than the XL2430T but far fewer blur reduction customization options.
The Benq has more adjustable blur reduction (strobing) and can strobe at all refresh rates (except 50hz and 76hz) including custom refresh rates (most "Bizarre" custom refresh rates, like 80hz or 91hz require a VT Tweak in order to work).
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Thanks for the reply. It sounds like the Benq doesn't automatically adjust the backlight strobe rate. Would it have to be set for each game depending on the FPS the computer is sending and how much does adjusting that change visual performance in real-world usage? I was under the impression that the LG blur reduction (Motion 240) only worked at 120hz. Did this change with newer firmware? So the LG has better picture quality than the Benq after both have been manually adjusted? The LG is currently in stock at a few places for $300, so ordering one would not be an issue for now.
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There is no monitor on the market that can dynamically adjust the strobe rate.
Any monitor that would be able to do this would be able to strobe in combination with Freesync and Gsync modes, and doing this would add at least several frames of input lag, which would probably make the entire game unplayable.
Even CRT's strobe in sync with the refresh rate, as refresh rates are fixed.
Variable refresh rates and Strobing are not compatible at this time. I even saw someone get a reply about the Eizo Foris FS2735 saying that while it can strobe at all refresh rates (including 60hz), they cant be combined with VRR because the two techs synchronize differently.
You can adjust the strobe width (which is called strobe persistence, and sometimes called strobe timing) in all of the Benq monitors (including the XL2730Z), and the strobe PHASE. The strobe phase is the sync timing. The strobe on every monitor, including the LG 24GM77 has to be in sync with the refresh rate, or you will get an unplayable stutter mess. This is what happens when you try to run the XL2730Z freesync monitor at blur reduction at 100hz....it strobes at 120hz sync timings and is out of sync with the refresh rate (TFTcentral mentions this). The previous XL2720Z and all of the other blur reduction 1.0 monitors (this includes the XL2430T) can strobe correctly at almost all refresh rates.
Anyway the strobe PHASE is the sync on when the strobe begins and ends during a refresh interval. The strobe PERIOD is the same as the refresh frame time (refresh frame time is 1000 divided by hz, in milliseconds....e.g. 60hz is 1000 divided by 60=16.7ms, and the strobe period consists of a "backlight on" period and a backlight off period.
the longer the backlight is off, the less time it is on (this should be very self explanatory). The less time it is on, the greater the effect of blur reduction (lower persistence) but the dimmer the screen. This is called "strobe duty" in the Benq monitors, renamed to "intensity" in the XL2730Z (its also called intensity in the XL2430T but in the XL2430T's service menu, it's still called Strobe duty). There's an article on how strobe duty (pulse widths) work here:
The Benq XL2430T allows you to adjust the width and phase (sync timing). Note that a HIGHER strobe phase will have 1 frame lower input lag than a lower strobe phase. A strobe phase of 100 (when NOT using a VT tweak) and a strobe phase of (max before the backlight shuts off) when using a VT Tweak, will have 1 frame LOWER Input lag than strobe phase 000, because a strobe phase of 000 is actually strobing during the NEXT frame, not the current frame.
I explained some math and crap over here in this thread.
The LG 24GM77 does not allow adjustments to the strobe phase or strobe duty.
I do NOT know if changing the vertical total will reduce the strobe crosstalk on the LG 24GM77.
The crosstalk seems to be similar to the Benq XLT when NOT using VT Tweaks. It seems to be in different places on the screen depending on what refresh rate Motion 240 is being used at.
The Benq Z series monitors (NOT the XL2730Z, but the XL2430T is actually a XL2430Z, so consider it this) respond to VT tweaks to lower the amount of strobe crosstalk on the screen. VT tweaks "increase" the blanking interval during a refresh, which allows the pixels more time to finish their on/off/on transitions, which lower the strobe crosstalk. (crosstalk occurs when, during a strobe, the pixels haven't finished their color transitions during a frame, which causes 2 frames to blur into each other).
here are pictures of the strobe crosstalk and also the overdrive ghosting on the LG 24GM77.
You can see the ghosting is top notch.
But the crosstalk......well....
(Crosstalk is that huge frame blurring at the top and bottom. You can see how the next frame starts being superimposed on the current one).
Hope this helps a bit.
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Same exact boat my friend... I need help friends.
I do not care about blur reduction... From my understanding blur in general on a 144 hz is much lower compared to a 60hz.
I play csgo alot. I need a responsive monitor. All the pros also do not use blur reduction/light boost.
I play csgo and watch videos/movies and anime... What monitor for me? 400~ dollars?
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Originally Posted by Remius
The LG is currently in stock at a few places for $300, so ordering one would not be an issue for now.
Where? US or EU?
Im in EU and searching for it all over the place.
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In USA here:
I don't know about UK.
The monitor was listed as discontinued 1 year ago on LG's site. I guess they kept making it.
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Originally Posted by banes312
Same exact boat my friend... I need help friends.
I do not care about blur reduction... From my understanding blur in general on a 144 hz is much lower compared to a 60hz.
I play csgo alot. I need a responsive monitor. All the pros also do not use blur reduction/light boost.
I play csgo and watch videos/movies and anime... What monitor for me? 400~ dollars?
Can anyone help me here?
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Thanks again for the very informative links Falkentyne. I hadn't realized monitor technology had gotten so varied in the past few years since my last PC build. If I'm understanding things correctly, the adjustable strobe settings of the Benq would allow for finer control of the ghosting and crosstalk while using blur reduction (vs the purely on/off blur reduction of the LG). Would a setting profile be needed for every game and/or use (i.e. movie watching)? Without blur reduction (or the use of a 3rd party utility) would the monitors look similar?
I wonder if it would be worth while to order both monitors for a direct comparison then return one within the extended holiday return windows. Granted, I don't have the knowledge or equipment to evaluate them to the level of detail the professional reviewers do.
Figuring this all out makes me almost tempted to try to find a decent 1440p 60hz monitor for ~$350 and skip the 144hz for now. Think I saw a Dell U2715H for $400 or so the other day lol.
xg4m3, Sorry, that price is for the US. Maybe they stopped selling that monitor in the EU?
Banes312, you might want to make a dedicated topic for your questions.
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This is probably not giving you the direct answer you want, but it's still an answer, so here goes...
Without blur reduction, the LG would look better than every Benq monitor except the XL2720Z.
And unless you want fully adjustable strobing at all refresh rates, the LG should look and play better, if you can deal with the strange crosstalk zones on the LG if using its Motion 240.
As before the pictures are here.
The amount of crosstalk that covers the screen is equal to XL2430T WITHOUT VT tweaks (since crosstalk depends on pixel transition rise and fall and settling times), but the crosstalk seems to move up or downwards strangely at different refresh rates. I don't know which picture corresponds to which refresh rate as I did not take those pictures. Someone on the blurbusters site took a bunch of pictures but its pretty obvious they were at different refresh rates, since you can't adjust strobe settings manually.
As far as "better than every monitor except the XL2720Z"...
The main problem with all of the Benq monitors before the XL2720Z, AND the XL2720Z at stock, is the horribly too aggressive AMA settings.
The XL2720Z has an blur reduction "AMA low" setting which DRASTICALLY improves things (as I mentioned: enable blur reduction then set or OVERWRITE the AMA high setting after enabling blur reduction), and you can use a bug in the firmware to force this "AMA low" setting to be used if blur reduction is off (by saving a preset (e.g. gamer 1) with blur reduction on, a second preset (e.g. gamer 2) with blur reduction off), set "AMA low" with blur reduction on, then instantly switch to the gamer 2 preset WITHOUT disabling blur reduction on the OSD. (this is a beneficial bug exploit). Doing this improves the default overdrive (which is too excessive and quite bad overshoot) to near perfect levels (can't really get any better), and matches the overdrive setting of "tracefree=60" of the Asus VG248QE.
The 24" benq monitors (I'm assuming this applies to the XL2430T also but no one I know has tested this, only the XLZ) don't benefit from this very much...overdrive is improved by maybe 10%, instead of *50%* on the XL2720Z.
So overdrive wise, doing my toggles will make both monitors ghosting wise pretty much the same.
LG 24GM77 will still have better colors than the XL2720Z, but by how much, no one really knows (I have never tested the LG).
I honestly know nothing about the color presets of the XL2430T, but most people say it's better than the XL2411Z. However some people have said that they can't get proper colors or black balance on the XL2430T, but they were able to on the XL2420Z. There have been firmware updates by Benq, hopefully to address this on the XL2430T, but I can't verify this for myself, but I do know it's up to V005 firmware. However no one has dumped the firmware or has it for download anywhere. Only the Z monitors have the firmware available.
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LG 24GM77 vs Benq XL2430T
&›&&›&&›&&›&LG 24GM77 vs Benq XL2430T